Forum Message

Topic: Response to Toby's Observer piece
Posted by: Iain Muir
Date/Time: 25/08/09 23:40:00

Toby Young’s Observer article, Free Schooling, 23/8/2009
Sorry folks, another long post, not my fault, honest!
Toby repeats a lot of the text from the original ActonW3 article but he added some interesting stuff....He compares the relative A level (3 A’s) 2008 performance of private (31%), selective grammar (26%) and comprehensives (7.7%) – What a surprise!  He thinks it unfortunate that he cannot access a grammar as an alternative to Acton High School in LB Ealing (according to the Good School Guide there are only 36 LA’s with Grammars in the whole country, 7 in London)
Toby’s Free schools will be funded by the LA on a per head basis, meaning less funding for existing schools, an echo of the long standing tory idea of voucher funding.
Toby will be happy with a school with 300 pupils, presumably 2 form entry, 25 a class. This will finance the staffing. I imagine Toby aspires to a broad curriculum, Latin or Greek anyone?
Toby gives the new academy at Burlington Danes, Wood Lane W12 as something he admires, described by the new head as a ‘comprehensive grammar’, ‘180 pupils in each year and they are individually ranked according to how they do in two annual tests. The results are put up on a notice board and pupils are divided into seven  streams. There is a huge amount of competition to stay in your set or move up, (says the head)’  Healthy competition for 11 year olds or survival of the fittest?, How will teaching resources be allocated between the lowest and highest streams?) This will be an option for Toby’s children as it is not too far away from his home, it seems to match his objectives, why go to the effort of creating your own?
Toby states the obvious in that there is a concern that middle class parents like him will take advantage for his Free School leaving state comps to struggle and decline. The solution is that the Free schools will be non selective and funding will reflect parental income (i.e. non selective, how will this be evidenced given Toby’s presumed high demand?, means tested by the LEA, can you see that working??)
Toby thinks his big idea will bring opportunity back (from the good old days) to working class children ‘One reason why social mobility has ground to a halt is because working class children aren’t being pushed as hard as they should be. The great virtue of grammars is that they can help children from ordinary backgrounds get a foothold on the careers ladder and I hope comprehensive grammars can do the same’
For the younger readers most grammar schools had disappeared by the late 1980’s. They had been part of the ‘Tripartite system’ of secondary education classified by the 1944 Education Act and were designed to educate the top 25% of the school system based on the ’11 Plus’ exam. Three quarters of pupils landed in ‘Secondary Moderns’ with a mainly vocational curriculum, to suit the needs of industry and the service industry. They could resit at 13 but after that further education was a no no,
Grammar schools did provide access for a number of working class children to academia and as Toby says wider career opportunities but they were essentially middle class in their ethos and aspirations, aping public schools in many ways. Hence their demise as equality of opportunity became more recognised. The Tory party have long recognised that their re-introduction, despite lobbying, would be not a vote winner.
Finally, Toby refers to his father’s role in abolishing grammars and Toby’s belief that we now have ‘good comps in middle class suburbs and affluent rural areas which are comparable to old-fashioned grammars, and the rest....in effect, the old division has been preserved except access to the best schools is now determined by income than ability.’ I think this over simplistic, slightly London centric and ignores the Academy initiatives,
I do not knock Toby for wishing the best for his children and admire his initiative in creating debate, but I think he is wrong and should work within the existing system to improve standards. Do you agree?
Iain Muir


Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea21/08/09 00:31:00 Iain Muir
   Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea21/08/09 07:52:00 Chris Hurley
      Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea21/08/09 08:12:00 Sara Nathan
         Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea21/08/09 10:09:00 Shao-Ying Ben-Nathan
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea21/08/09 11:19:00 Peter Todd
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea21/08/09 11:26:00 Colin Murphy
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea21/08/09 12:23:00 John Theodore Clark
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea21/08/09 15:22:00 Peter Todd
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea21/08/09 17:17:00 Colin Murphy
                        Have some posts vanished?22/08/09 10:19:00 Sara Nathan
                           Re:Have some posts vanished?22/08/09 10:20:00 John Theodore Clark
                              Re:Re:Have some posts vanished?22/08/09 10:38:00 Peter Todd
                                 Re:Re:Re:Have some posts vanished?22/08/09 12:06:00 Sara Nathan
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Have some posts vanished?22/08/09 12:41:00 John Theodore Clark
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Have some posts vanished?22/08/09 15:55:00 Dan Filson
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Have some posts vanished?22/08/09 16:05:00 Sara Nathan
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Have some posts vanished?22/08/09 16:15:00 Dan Filson
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Where is my post, editor???!!!22/08/09 20:13:00 John Theodore Clark
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Where is my post, editor???!!!22/08/09 23:43:00 Sara Nathan
                                                      Back to the thread23/08/09 11:27:00 Sara Nathan
                                                         Re:Back to the thread23/08/09 20:46:00 Chris Hurley
   Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea24/08/09 11:49:00 Andy Jones
      Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea24/08/09 16:23:00 Rosco White
         A response to Andy Jones24/08/09 21:43:00 Iain Muir
            Re:A response to Andy Jones24/08/09 23:25:00 Chris Hurley
               Re:Re:A response to Andy Jones25/08/09 07:35:00 Sara Nathan
               Re:Re:A response to Andy Jones25/08/09 07:35:00 John Theodore Clark
                  Re:Re:Re:A response to Andy Jones25/08/09 09:40:00 Andy Jones
                     Response to Toby's Observer piece25/08/09 23:40:00 Iain Muir
                        Re:Response to Toby's Observer piece26/08/09 09:08:00 Sara Nathan
                           Re:Re:Response to Toby's Observer piece26/08/09 11:41:00 Andy Jones
                              Re:Re:Re:Response to Toby's Observer piece26/08/09 12:39:00 Sara Nathan
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Response to Toby's Observer piece27/08/09 22:43:00 Iain Muir
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Response to Toby's Observer piece27/08/09 23:23:00 Sara Nathan
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Response to Toby's Observer piece30/08/09 23:59:00 Anne Brown
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Response to Toby's Observer piece31/08/09 05:49:00 Maire Lowe
                              Re:Re:Re:Response to Toby's Observer piece31/08/09 11:29:00 Shao-Ying Ben-Nathan
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Response to Toby's Observer piece31/08/09 11:45:00 Sara Nathan
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Response to Toby's Observer piece01/09/09 08:36:00 Maire Lowe
   Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea01/09/09 23:19:00 Colin Carroll
      Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea02/09/09 11:23:00 Anne Brown
      Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea02/09/09 11:29:00 Andy Jones
         Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea02/09/09 13:20:00 Colin Carroll
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea03/09/09 10:03:00 Andy Jones
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea03/09/09 10:40:00 Colin Carroll
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea03/09/09 11:01:00 Sara Nathan
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea03/09/09 12:03:00 Colin Carroll
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea04/09/09 10:51:00 Andy Jones
         Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea02/09/09 15:57:00 Maire Lowe
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea03/09/09 09:41:00 Sara Nathan
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea03/09/09 11:51:00 Shao-Ying Ben-Nathan
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea03/09/09 14:10:00 Anne Brown
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea03/09/09 14:16:00 Shao-Ying Ben-Nathan
                        Toby's big new TV Project with school attached?03/09/09 22:01:00 Iain Muir
                           Re:Toby's big new TV Project with school attached?03/09/09 22:33:00 Sara Nathan
                              Re:Re:Toby's big new TV Project with school attached?03/09/09 23:18:00 Iain Muir
                                 Re:Re:Re:Toby's big new TV Project with school attached?04/09/09 08:09:00 Sara Nathan
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Toby's big new TV Project with school attached?04/09/09 11:00:00 Maire Lowe
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Toby's big new TV Project with school attached?04/09/09 12:07:00 Anne Brown
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Toby's big new TV Project with school attached?04/09/09 16:03:00 Nigel Williams
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Toby's big new TV Project with school attached?04/09/09 17:10:00 Anne Brown
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Toby's big new TV Project with school attached?05/09/09 19:25:00 Maire Lowe
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Toby's big new TV Project with school attached?17/11/09 18:36:00 David Lawes
   Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea15/11/09 12:53:00 Hitesh Tailor
      Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea15/11/09 15:48:00 Shao-Ying Ben-Nathan
         Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea17/11/09 13:54:00 Vivienne Duggan
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea17/11/09 15:59:00 Chris Hurley
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea17/11/09 17:23:00 Vivienne Duggan
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea17/11/09 22:47:00 The Editor
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea17/11/09 22:51:00 The Editor
      Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea17/11/09 22:33:00 Paul Webster
   Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea18/11/09 00:53:00 Toby Young
      Re:Re:Elephant in the Room - Toby Young's School idea29/11/09 00:21:00 Iain Muir

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