Topic: | Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | |
Posted by: | Clare Margaret | |
Date/Time: | 18/11/09 09:59:00 |
John I'm working my way through them. But I note this. Pain is a subjective experience, difficult ( or impossible) to accurately measure objectively. Fot the purposes of the studies you quote, they have had to define pain. They have used a definition which requires the subject to have some higher cortical functions "Because pain is a psychological construct with emotional content, the experience of pain is modulated by changing emotional input and may need to be learned through life experience". This understanding of the pain experience was also applied to neonates. Many years ago I was asked to 'assist' at a circumcision of a newborn. My assistance merely required holding the baby very firmly so that it's movements didn't cause the blade to miss its mark. At all the points in the procedure that one would expect would be most painful the baby responded appropriately ( going rigid as though he was stunned by pain, breath holding, then screaming. His heartrate was also perceptibly increased. And then after the procedure frantically sucking for comfort and crying.) I was really preturbed at having to essentially hold this child down while he had minor surgry without benefit of anaesthetic. However the consultant was adamant that he could feel no pain because he had no emotional awareness of what was happening and no memory. He insisted that his crying was a response to being held down rather than the pain of the knife. Shortly after this, the thinking changed and local anaesthetics were introduced for neonatal circumcision. As you would expect, the 'pain responses' that 'weren't really caused by actual pain' ceased. The babies tolerated the procedure very well. So when we have a study which uses a definition of pain which requires a higher level of sentience I can't help feeling that the books are somewhat cooked to start with. Remember, many of these papers are written by people who also perform TOPs. So naturally there is some human bias in attempting to make an objective assessment of a subjective experience. |
Topic | Date Posted | Posted By |
Poor Dog | 09/11/09 20:03:00 | Uzma Staite |
Re:Poor Dog | 09/11/09 21:25:00 | Sara Nathan |
Re:Poor Dog | 09/11/09 23:10:00 | Colin Murphy |
Re:Poor Dog | 10/11/09 00:32:00 | Fred Bray |
Re:Re:Poor Dog | 10/11/09 09:58:00 | Becky Bell |
Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 10/11/09 10:06:00 | Uzma Staite |
This may help | 10/11/09 11:23:00 | Colin Murphy |
Re:Poor Dog | 10/11/09 10:41:00 | Emma Daniels |
Re:Re:Poor Dog | 10/11/09 13:53:00 | Dee Cook |
Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 10/11/09 18:00:00 | Sara Nathan |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 11/11/09 09:33:00 | Colin Murphy |
Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 10/11/09 19:36:00 | Colin Carroll |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 11/11/09 13:47:00 | Dee Cook |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 11/11/09 14:14:00 | Sara Nathan |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 00:31:00 | Uzma Staite |
Re:Poor Dog | 13/11/09 01:26:00 | Alice Jones |
Re:Re:Poor Dog | 13/11/09 11:22:00 | Dee Cook |
Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 13/11/09 13:17:00 | Colin Murphy |
Re:Poor Dog | 13/11/09 18:09:00 | Uzma Staite |
Re:Re:Poor Dog | 13/11/09 21:31:00 | Eileen Francis |
Re:Poor Dog | 14/11/09 02:31:00 | George Spence |
Re:Re:Poor Dog | 14/11/09 09:20:00 | Clare Margaret |
Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 14/11/09 15:44:00 | Colin Carroll |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 14/11/09 20:34:00 | Clare Margaret |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 14/11/09 20:46:00 | John Theodore Clark |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 15/11/09 16:58:00 | Colin Carroll |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 15/11/09 17:32:00 | Jen Morty |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 15/11/09 19:43:00 | John Theodore Clark |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 15/11/09 20:21:00 | Clare Margaret |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 16/11/09 12:44:00 | Dee Cook |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 19/11/09 00:55:00 | Alice Jones |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 17/11/09 14:01:00 | Alice Jones |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 17/11/09 14:28:00 | Clare Margaret |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 17/11/09 15:09:00 | John Theodore Clark |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 01:11:00 | Clare Margaret |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 09:09:00 | John Theodore Clark |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 09:59:00 | Clare Margaret |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 10:25:00 | Colin Carroll |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 11:09:00 | Clare Margaret |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 11:43:00 | John Theodore Clark |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 12:16:00 | Clare Margaret |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 12:42:00 | Clare Margaret |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 13:01:00 | John Theodore Clark |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 13:10:00 | Clare Margaret |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 13:38:00 | John Theodore Clark |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 13:43:00 | Clare Margaret |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 14:04:00 | John Theodore Clark |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 13:26:00 | Sara Nathan |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 13:34:00 | Clare Margaret |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 12:58:00 | John Theodore Clark |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 13:28:00 | Clare Margaret |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 13:58:00 | John Theodore Clark |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 16:15:00 | Sara Nathan |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Poor Dog | 18/11/09 16:33:00 | John Theodore Clark |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:From squished chihuahua to underage sex | 18/11/09 16:46:00 | John Theodore Clark |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:From squished chihuahua to underage sex | 18/11/09 21:49:00 | Clare Margaret |
At the risk of flogging a dead chihuahua... | 18/11/09 22:06:00 | Clare Margaret |
Re:At the risk of flogging a dead chihuahua... | 18/11/09 22:22:00 | Clare Margaret |
Re:Re:At the risk of flogging a dead chihuahua... | 19/11/09 00:06:00 | Jen Morty |